{"id":95311,"date":"2024-10-03T13:17:51","date_gmt":"2024-10-03T11:17:51","guid":{"rendered":"https:\/\/www.nordnet.no\/blogg\/?p=95311"},"modified":"2026-03-11T17:07:08","modified_gmt":"2026-03-11T16:07:08","slug":"pengepodden-duell-bor-vi-ha-digitale-sentralbankpenger","status":"publish","type":"post","link":"https:\/\/www.nordnet.no\/blogg\/pengepodden-duell-bor-vi-ha-digitale-sentralbankpenger\/","title":{"rendered":"#pengepodden &#8211; Duell: B\u00f8r vi ha digitale sentralbankpenger?"},"content":{"rendered":"\n<figure class=\"wp-block-embed is-type-video is-provider-youtube wp-block-embed-youtube wp-embed-aspect-16-9 wp-has-aspect-ratio\"><div class=\"wp-block-embed__wrapper\">\n<iframe loading=\"lazy\" title=\"#pengepodden - Duell: B\u00f8r vi ha digitale sentralbankpenger?\" width=\"770\" height=\"433\" src=\"https:\/\/www.youtube.com\/embed\/JRBH3IxWXiM?feature=oembed\" frameborder=\"0\" allow=\"accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share\" referrerpolicy=\"strict-origin-when-cross-origin\" allowfullscreen><\/iframe>\n<\/div><\/figure>\n\n\n\n<p>Vil vi om noen \u00e5r betale med digitale sentralbankpenger (DSP) med mulighet for utl\u00f8psdato, rabattkoder og ESG-begrensninger? Vil dette da kunne f\u00f8re til et overv\u00e5kningssamfunn der staten ser alt du bruker penger p\u00e5? Bitcoin-entusiast og medgrunnlegger i Bare Bitcoin, Torkel Rogstad, debatterer disse sp\u00f8rsm\u00e5lene med Lasse Meholm, som bl.a. har v\u00e6rt konsulent for Norges Bank i deres tiln\u00e6rming til digitale valutaer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<iframe title='Embed Player' width='100%' height='188px' src='https:\/\/embed.acast.com\/61653f7433ffb500132c0775\/66fd81244f98175c752c3e9a' scrolling='no' frameborder='0' style='border:none;overflow:hidden;'><\/iframe>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Digitale sentralbankpenger (DSP) er ukjent for mange. Lasse forklarer hva dette er. DSP er elektroniske penger utstedt av sentralbanken i den offisielle pengeenheten. Norges Bank utreder n\u00e5 om DSP b\u00f8r innf\u00f8res i Norge, et arbeid som Lasse har v\u00e6rt med p\u00e5. Andre land jobber ogs\u00e5 med dette, inkludert USA, Storbritannia, Japan og Sverige. Det er noen land som allerede har innf\u00f8rt DSP \u2013 h\u00f8r hvilke.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Lasse forklarer at det i dag finnes to typer penger i Norge: Kontanter og kontopenger. DSP vil eventuelt utgj\u00f8re en tredje kategori.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"torkel-staten-vil-kunne-se-alt-du-gjor\"><strong>Torkel: Staten vil kunne se alt du gj\u00f8r<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>(fra 5:15) Torkel er meget skeptisk til DSP. Han nevner to grunner til sin skepsis.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Det f\u00f8rste er at vi b\u00f8r v\u00e6re restriktive med hvilke verkt\u00f8y vi gir staten. N\u00e5r folk med makt f\u00e5r nye muligheter, s\u00e5 ender de som regel opp med \u00e5 bruke dem. Historisk sett har slike verkt\u00f8y ogs\u00e5 kommet i fare for \u00e5 bli misbrukt av myndigheter. Vil vi egentlig at staten skal ha full kontroll p\u00e5 alle monet\u00e6re bevegelser?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Staten er d\u00e5rligere til \u00e5 innovere enn markedet, sier ogs\u00e5 Torkel. Det private markedet klarer veldig fint \u00e5 lage sikre og effektive betalingsl\u00f8sninger. Tror vi egentlig at staten kan klare \u00e5 lage noe bedre?<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"lasse-vi-trenger-dsp-av-beredskapshensyn\">Lasse: <strong>Vi trenger DSP av beredskapshensyn<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>(fra 8:11) Lasse nevner to grunner til at DSP vil bli en realitet i flere nye land om noen \u00e5r.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Norge er et av de meste digitaliserte land i verden. Det er stor sannsynlighet for at vi p\u00e5 et eller annet tidspunkt vil oppleve at bankenes systemer settes ut av drift, muligens i flere dager. Da kan du ikke sjekke saldo p\u00e5 konto, du kan ikke betale, etc.. Vi trenger bedre beredskap, og DSP kan v\u00e6re svaret.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Metaverse var \u00e5penbart en flopp, men WEB 3.0 indikerer at nye tjenester basert p\u00e5 blockchain siger inn i samfunnet etter hvert. Spillindustrien er der alt. Da trenger vi &#8220;tokeniserte penger&#8221; fordi v\u00e5re digitale kontopenger ikke fungerer i et slikt milj\u00f8. DSP kan v\u00e6re svaret p\u00e5 dette ogs\u00e5.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"gjennomgang-av-argumentene\"><strong>Gjennomgang av argumentene<\/strong><\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>(fra 12:55) Debattantene diskuterer hver av de overnevnte argumentene.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Lasse argumenterer for at DSP f\u00f8rst og fremst handler om beredskap. Dersom den digitale \u00f8konomien slik den er i dag blir satt ut av spill av cyberangrep eller lignende, har dagens samfunn sv\u00e6rt lite \u00e5 falle tilbake p\u00e5.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Torkel peker p\u00e5 kontanter som en fortsatt nyttig teknologi: Den er offline, anonym og brukervennlig for alle aldre. Av hensyn til hvitvasking mener han kontanter ikke ville blitt lansert i dag om de ikke fantes fra f\u00f8r av. Det er f.eks. ikke lov \u00e5 lage anonyme digitale penger i dag til tross for at teknologien har eksistert lenge, sier han.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Han beskriver ogs\u00e5 et dystopisk scenario der digitale sentralbankpenger vil kunne programmeres til \u00e5 hindre folk \u00e5 kj\u00f8pe mer enn en kilo kj\u00f8tt. Lasse bekrefter at det er teknisk mulig, men at en sentralbank aldri ville hatt interesse av \u00e5 gj\u00f8re noe s\u00e5nt i et demokrati. Dessuten p\u00e5peker han at bankene allerede vet alt om deg dersom du ikke bruker kontanter. Torkel sp\u00f8r om vi skal gi staten den samme datamengden vi allerede har gitt private akt\u00f8rer.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"dsp-og-demokrati\">DSP og demokrati<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>(fra 26:28) Bj\u00f8rn Erik p\u00e5peker at land som allerede har innf\u00f8rt DSP neppe er \u00e5 anse som demokratier. Lasse forteller at motivasjonen til disse landene for \u00e5 innf\u00f8re digitale penger varierer. Kinas motivasjon kan v\u00e6re \u00e5 styrke sin allerede eksisterende infrastruktur for sosial kreditt (social credit score), hvor man mister tilgang til tjenester dersom man motsetter seg myndighetenes p\u00e5legg. Fattigere land som Nigeria eksperimenterer med DSP fordi de mangler et robust \u00f8konomi fra f\u00f8r, mener Lasse.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Torkel mistenker at myndighetene i Nigeria \u00f8nsker \u00e5 motvirke bruken av kryptovaluta i landet, som har \u00f8kt pga. at landets standard valuta (naira) har v\u00e6rt i fritt fall den siste tiden.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Bj\u00f8rn Erik sp\u00f8r Lasse om n\u00e5r Norge f\u00e5r en e-krone? Lasse svarer at det i alle fall vil ta 5 \u00e5r, kanskje 10 \u00e5r. Norges Bank startet et prosjekt om DSP allerede i 2016. Han presiserer at Norges Bank jobber med dette ikke fordi de har et behov for \u00e5 utstede det, men fordi de har et mandat om beredskap dersom eksisterende betalingssystemet krasjer. Han forteller om de forskjellige utviklingfasene, der han har v\u00e6rt med p\u00e5 teste ut teknologien for Norges Bank.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Dersom Stortinget finner ut at vi m\u00e5 ha digitale sentralbankpenger, skal Norges Bank v\u00e6re klare til \u00e5 utstede det s\u00e5 tidlig som i 2025, sier Lasse.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>De dr\u00f8fter hvilken interesse norske myndigheter kan ha for \u00e5 innf\u00f8re dette.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<h2 class=\"wp-block-heading\" id=\"markedet-vs-staten\">Markedet vs. staten<\/h2>\n\n\n\n<p>(fra 36:24) Lasse understreker viktigheten av beredskap i forhold til DSP. Kontanter vil ikke v\u00e6re tilstrekkelig i en krisesituasjon. Selv om det anbefales \u00e5 ha kontanter i boden for n\u00f8dtilfeller (noe b\u00e5de Lasse og Bj\u00f8rn Erik har), er ikke dette nok.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Torkel p\u00e5 sin side viser fram en teknologi han har i lomma som lar deg betale med Bitcoin uten noen form for internett. Han hevder at markedet er bedre p\u00e5 \u00e5 finne slike l\u00f8sninger enn Norges Bank.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p>Avslutningsvis diskuterer de Stablecoin som en mulig l\u00f8sning.<\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/feeds.acast.com\/public\/shows\/61653f7433ffb500132c0775\" rel=\"noopener\">Abonner via RSS<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/shows.acast.com\/61653f7433ffb500132c0775\" rel=\"noopener\">Abonner via Acast<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/itunes.apple.com\/no\/podcast\/pengepodden\/id1001063872\" rel=\"noopener\">Abonner via iTunes<\/a><\/p>\n\n\n\n<p><a href=\"https:\/\/open.spotify.com\/show\/0mXSVGfhkKBxYTj638hjoj\" rel=\"noopener\">Abonner via Spotify<\/a><\/p>\n","protected":false},"excerpt":{"rendered":"<p>Vil vi om noen \u00e5r betale med digitale sentralbankpenger (DSP) med mulighet for utl\u00f8psdato, rabattkoder og ESG-begrensninger? Vil dette da kunne f\u00f8re til et overv\u00e5kningssamfunn der staten ser alt du bruker penger p\u00e5? Bitcoin-entusiast og medgrunnlegger i Bare Bitcoin, Torkel Rogstad, debatterer disse sp\u00f8rsm\u00e5lene med Lasse Meholm, som bl.a. har v\u00e6rt konsulent for Norges Bank [&hellip;]<\/p>\n","protected":false},"author":20033,"featured_media":0,"comment_status":"open","ping_status":"closed","sticky":false,"template":"","format":"audio","meta":{"_acf_changed":false,"ghostkit_customizer_options":"","ghostkit_custom_css":"","ghostkit_custom_js_head":"","ghostkit_custom_js_foot":"","ghostkit_typography":"","_coblocks_attr":"","_coblocks_dimensions":"","_coblocks_responsive_height":"","_coblocks_accordion_ie_support":"","footnotes":""},"categories":[6463],"tags":[3962],"class_list":["post-95311","post","type-post","status-publish","format-audio","hentry","category-pengepodden","tag-toppsak","post_format-post-format-audio"],"acf":[],"all_images":{"thumbnail":{"src":"https:\/\/blogg.nordnet.no\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2020\/02\/Banner-Pengepodden-1024x400-1-150x59.png","width":150,"height":59,"crop":true,"srcset":"https:\/\/blogg.nordnet.no\/wp-content\/uploads\/sites\/2\/2020\/02\/Banner-Pengepodden-1024x400-1-150x59.png 150w, 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